February 4, 2010

City's closed meeting violating state guidelines?

The agenda for a closed session involving the city's Executive Committee tonight does not specifically mention what the committee will discuss. The omission may violate a ruling from the state Attorney General on closed meetings.

The agenda reads:
Communication from the City Administrator wishing to convene in closed session to discuss with the Executive Committee, and to confer with legal counsel, concerning strategy with respect to litigation in which the City of Racine is or is likely to become involved.
The Wisconsin Department of Justice's 2007 Open Meetings Compliance Guide reads (emphasis added):
b. Closed session
The notice provision in Wis. Stat. § 19.84(2) requires that if the chief presiding officer or the officer’s designee knows at the time he or she gives notice of a meeting that a closed session is contemplated, the notice must contain the subject matter to be considered in closed session. Such notice “must contain enough information for the public to discern whether the subject matter is authorized for closed session under § 19.85(1).” Buswell, 2007 WI 71, ¶ 37 n.7. The Attorney General has advised that notice of closed sessions must contain the specific nature of the business, as well as the exemption(s) under which the chief presiding officer believes a closed session is authorized. 66 Op. Att’y Gen. 93, 98. Merely identifying and quoting from a statutory exemption does not reasonably identify any particular subject that might be taken up thereunder and thus is not adequate notice of a closed session. Weinschenk Correspondence, December 29, 2006; Anderson Correspondence, February 13, 2007. In State ex rel. Schaeve v. Van Lare, 125 Wis. 2d 40, 47, 370 N.W.2d 271 (Ct. App. 1985), the court held that a notice to convene in closed session under Wis. Stat. § 19.85(1)(b) “‘to conduct a hearing to consider the possible discipline of a public employee’” was sufficient.
The Executive Committee may be in the clear, though, following a ruling last year by District Attorney Mike Nieskes. Read a recap of the last challenge to an Executive Committee meeting here.

Update: I talked with City Administrator Tom Friedel this afternoon. He disagreed with our interpretation of the open records law, and, to be fair, the Racine County District Attorney appears to agree with him.

Friedel said the city is being specific when it says it plans to meet "concerning strategy with respect to litigation in which the City of Racine is or is likely to become involved." The city doesn't want to get more specific because it doesn't want to tip its hand and give the opposition an advantage in court.

Speaking on behalf of the state's "Sunshine Laws," we'd argue the city needs to at least reference the case it intends to meet on. It has every right to meet privately to discuss strategy, it just needs to say what it's going to meet privately about.

We really don't post these items to make city government "look bad." Everybody here seems to be acting reasonably. We just believe government functions best when it gives as much information as possible. In this case, we believe more specifics were needed on the Executive Committee's agenda.

Update 2: The meeting was canceled

56 comments:

  1. A Mayor, A City Administrator, A City Legal Counsel, A PIO Officer.........AND THESE IDIOTS STILL CAN"T FIGURE ANYTHING OUT! I'm embarressed for them. They should all be fired!

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  2. Would you buy a house from John Dickert? How on earth can this city servive with this idiot running the show. He needs to be axed ASAP.

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  3. 4:38 - You should be "embarressed" of your spelling.

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  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  5. Apparently these guys are gluttuns for punishment. The law seems pretty clear. Mt Pleasant also struggles with what should be a closed meeting. They go into closed meetings too often with things that should be open.

    The only way to fix both the city and Mt Pleasant situations is to vote new people into the positions. Every candidate should be asked if they understand open versus closed meetings.

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  6. Good work, Dustin.

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. Did Racine get fined for voting via email or changing minutes?

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  9. It would appear the city is disregarding the plain English compliance guidelines.

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  10. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  11. This is why there was, and still is, a need to hire a professional city administrator not a political appointee. The mayor has surrounded himself with people that don't know any more about running a government than he does.

    For entertainment draw yourself a picture in your mind of what a meeting would be like with the mayor and his new team. The ego rush alone would be fantastic. Everyone in the room would know they can screw up anything and not be held accountable. They know they can't rely on the paper work they have in front of them because it always seems to be inaccurate. Dustin's voice rings in their ears that it probably should be an open meeting. They aren't sure about the nasty open meeting rules so they decide that they should not be meeting. They finish their coffee. Nothing is accomplished. They leave.

    Any questions about what is going on right now?

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  12. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  13. Dustin:

    How does a Peon nobody Racine Taxpayer go about filing an official complaint with the State or whoever so that some sort of sanctions are shoved so far up their holes that can't sit for a week?

    First the illegal E-mail voting and now the attempt of this....

    Can you let us peons know please?

    Thank you and great work.

    PS, the "word verification" for my post was "bendover", I'm not kidding!!

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  14. Dustin, why did you remove my post? Is the truth too much for you?

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  15. Graham: I removed it. I'm tired of your nasty language. You know the Mayor's name, spell it right and stop acting like a 4th grade twit.

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  16. Pete you should set guidelines for bloggers to follow. Comments shouldn't be deleted because you get tired of somebody.
    I saw that post before it was deleted and there wasn't anything that should warrant deletion.
    I've seen far worse comments left here.
    Just depends on the personal feelings of Dustin and Pete once again.

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  17. Then go read another website. Seriously, we won't miss you.

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  18. Oh yes that's a great professional attitude Dustin. There seriously should be some set rules so people are not surprised when items are or are not deleted.

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  19. That wasn't a very professional response.
    SDJ

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  20. Okay Pete, I can see your point in not wanting responders to emphasize just exactly what "your boy in city hall" really is. I will refrain from spelling his name with the first four letters of it capitalized. If it's more than you can tolerate, I certainly wouldn't want cause you any discomfort. I'm sure you're losing sleep over it. However, rather than remove a perfectly factual response, maybe you should just have edited his name to lower case, including the first letter, as this joke of a mayor doesn't deserve the respect of a capital.

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  21. For the record, Pete and Dustin honestly don't give a darn about us as readers.

    And, for those of us that held them in a higher regard, this is the moment that they became exactly like the JT - with random deletions of comments based on personal preference and complete disrespect for patrons.

    Good bye, Racine Post. You had such potential. Unfortunately, you decided to lower your standards

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  22. Graham: Our software does not give us the ability edit comments, only to accept or reject them as submitted. We let too many slide by, I agree.

    All we ask is a little respect and maturity.

    And, finally, he's not "our boy in City Hall;" he's Racine's mayor. Object all you wish to what he does -- but let's not devolve into childish name-calling.

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  23. Pete:

    I think you may have called the kettle black on that one. Few people are going to listen to or respect your opinion on that issue until you can demonstrate the same respect you are indicating that we should have for you and Dustin.

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  24. Amen anon 5:44 - I couldn't have said it better:
    "random deletions of comments based on personal preference and complete disrespect for patrons"

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  25. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  26. Dustin/Pete

    It is your blog. Do as you wish. I agree that far to many posts on here are of a jr high school mentality. Delete them!

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  27. I for one also feel the hatred and dilike that so many do towards Dickert, but name calling is not the way to remove him from office?

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  28. "It is your blog. Do as you wish" No Anon 10:18 am - Dustin/Pete are trying to operate a legit news website and receive money from advertisers. They should not simply "do as they wish". They should be operating like the legit news site they are claiming to be. IMHO they operate by the seat of their pants and driven by emotion. Not a way to get a business going.

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  29. Based on the overwhelming number of bloggers here that despise dickert, as opposed to the few that support him, it is obvious that the man does not command respect. He has proven that gaining the office of mayor is nothing more than an opportunity for him to reward his friends and provide jobs to those who supported his campaign. His actions and demeanor in the city council meetings blatantly show his arrogance and display his obvious attitude of lust for power and do nothing to command respect from anyone. The sooner we are rid of him, and his "I'm the king" attitude and his total lack of concern and respect for the voters that elected him, the better off Racine will be.

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  30. How do we get rid of this clown dickert?

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  31. Anon 2/7, 2:24-

    A friend of mine contacted the advertisers on this site after a recent article was not removed despite repeated protests within the comments and even an allegation of false reporting by one of the interviewees. In response, one advertiser, the President of Racine Theatre Guild, wrote her back to inform her that Pete is his friend and, therefore, he would not be removing his advertising from Pete's articles.

    They write about the "old boys club", but they actually ARE the old boys club.

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  32. Tim the Shrubber2/08/2010 8:05 AM

    " There seriously should be some set rules so people are not surprised when items are or are not deleted."

    That sounds like a good idea to me.

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  33. The current rule seems to be that if you agree with Pete or Dustin, regardless of what you say or what language you use, they keep your response posted. But, if you disagree and try to expose their boy in city hall, or his minions, for what they really are, then your plug gets pulled.

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  34. Tim the Shrubber2/08/2010 9:47 AM

    "...their boy in city hall, or his minions..."

    Well, I am not going to comment on Dustin and Pete's policies since I do not know the content of the things they have deleted. However, if I ran this site I probably would have chopped your comment simply for the disrespectful tone. Meaningful debate and conversation shuts down when you attack people with whom you disagree, and it does nobody any good.

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  35. Timmy - shut up - Ha, Ha.

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  36. Tim the Shrubber2/08/2010 11:36 AM

    "Timmy - shut up - Ha, Ha."

    I am not sure I can match a comment that insightful and witty. {sound of dripping sarcasm}

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  37. Agreed. Attack the policy, not the person.
    SDJ

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  38. Tim the Shrubber2/08/2010 1:35 PM

    A question to Pete and Dustin....

    You indicated that the courts have okayed "‘to conduct a hearing to consider the possible discipline of a public employee’" as a valid agenda description.

    The agenda said "...to confer with legal counsel, concerning strategy with respect to litigation in which the City of Racine is or is likely to become involved."

    I am not sure I realy see the difference. You say that you would like to see the case referenced, but wouldn't that be something akin to naming the employee in the example?

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  39. It's mor fun to attack the person.

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  40. Learn how to spell, you idiot!

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  41. When it is the "person's" policies and agenda that are screwing the citizens, then that person needs to be attacked for those reasons. They don’t deserve and respect. That's like saying Obama is a hard left Marxist intent on destroying America. He is quoted as saying, "America is the greatest country in the world. Help me to change it." And then turning around and saying what a good man and great American he is. BS!

    The fact is, john dickert thinks he's been elected king and all his minions on the city council think they're overlords. They don't believe that they were elected to REPRESENT the people that put them there, rather they think they know better than we do and that we aren't capable of taking care of ourselves or making rational decision and insist on pushing their agendas down our throats and taxing us until they get everything we're making. They are liars, bullies and egotists who are enemies to businesses and property owners. Their extreme far left agenda makes them enemies of America and everything that freedom stands for. They don’t care at all about the opinions of the people of this town (the recycle carts are proof of that) and are going to do whatever they damn well please regardless of what we think. Anyone who voted for dickert or his minions should be ashamed of themselves.

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  42. Tim the Shrubber2/08/2010 8:11 PM

    Graham, there comes a point in time when you have to ask yourself, "do I want to be sanctimonious and self-righteous, or do I want to make a positive difference?." If you cannot act polite and respectful to people that you dislike or even despise, then other people are not going to listen to your ideas. And the result of that is that your ideas lose. Are you mature enough to want to win?

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    Here is a perfect example...

    "Anyone who voted for dickert or his minions should be ashamed of themselves."

    So, your strategy to win over dickert voters to your point of view is to insult them?

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  43. No Tim, I'm only guilty of pointing out the obvious.

    I, like many Americans, have had it up to our necks with political correctness and the "tolerance" BS. What's wrong is wrong, what's biblically and traditionally immoral is just that, immoral. Those that are responsible for it need to be singled out and called to account for it. They don't deserve any respect, and I for one am not going to give them any. Locally, that starts with “king” dickert and his overlords. They don’t act like public servants, and until they do, they will NOT receive any respect from me. That is something that has to be earned. Just filling a position does not command it.

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  44. Biblically, there is only One that can make judgement. Let's leave that up to Him.
    I am not a fan of his antics either, but you have to remember he has a family too that he, and I am certain, cares for very much. I am sure it would really hurt his children, who have really no say in the matter, to see the silly name calling.
    Just put your children in the same situation.
    Graham, most of your postings are very articulate and well thought out. Please don't tarnish them with the name calling.
    Thanks-SDJ

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  45. A spade is a spade, period. I have refrained from calling dickert and his minions the base, foul, obscene things that I really think they are. In fact, I have been pretty forgiving in my language. But when someone acts like he thinks he's been elected king and his minions continue to ignore their constituents and continue to rule as overlords, I'm going to say just exactly that.

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  46. I plan to use the black pen on election day to change all that. Hopefully there is somebody better to choose from.
    SDJ

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  47. Tim the Shrubber2/09/2010 11:30 AM

    "Hopefully there is somebody better to choose from."

    Why would there be? Perhaps we might get better candidates if insults, slurs and other bashing was not the norm of acceptable political discussion. Instead of having a system that filters based on talent and ability, we only get people who are extremely thickskinned.

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  48. Tim, people are to the point of boiling over. We are drowning in a sea of entitlements for those who refuse to work or are considered minorities and take government handouts because they CAN, not because they NEED it. We are taxed, and taxed, and taxed even more and get nothing in return and are then told how evil we are because we work hard to earn our incomes and how greedy we are because we don't want to had it over to some lazy slug who refuses to apply him/herself. We’re ticked off about women who go on welfare and become nothing more than baby factories just to get even more welfare dollars. It's gone too far! We're sick of our rights being reinterpreted by liberals and/or taken away from us. We're tired of the left forcing us to accept what is historically and biblically immoral and then chastising us because we are intolerant. We are going to let off steam, and we are going to direct it at those who perpetrate the madness, starting with dickert and his minions and working our way up. They're lucky that it has so far only been restricted to name calling when it could be much more threatening. The only thing that seems to be saving these people is the fact that the vast majority of this country is still Christian (the last poll I saw put that number at 85%). But, if we are continued to be pushed, things could very well get nasty.

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  49. Tim the Shrubber2/10/2010 8:52 AM

    Graham -

    I think perhaps you have been drinking a bit too much tea. One of the biggest dangers to contemporary conservatism is that the tea party is going to overreach rhetorically and lose the support of those it needs.

    Make no mistake, the tea party movement is a minority movement. It will only have the power to change things if it maintains the goodwill of political independents. While independents are currently sypathetic to the tea party movevent, it could change in an instant it the tea party movement has nothing more to offer than anger.

    Anger is not an ideology. Anger is not a policy. Anger is not a solution. Anger got the tea parties on the map, but now it is time to calm down and actually get to work articulating solutions. If the tea party movement cannot do that, public suport will dry up and it will accomplish nothing.

    Man, I miss the days when civilized, rational people like William F. Buckley were the face of conservatism. The right seems to be devolving into some sort of mirror image of the left...opposite ideological orientation, but similar in that is has come to rely on sloganeering, emotional appeals, populist tactics, etc.

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    "But, if we are continued to be pushed, things could very well get nasty."

    Shame on you for writing this! There is no place for threats like this in a democratic system. Given you have written this, I think you really need to reconsider ir you are really committed to freedom and democratic values.

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  50. Tim, how misguided can you be?

    The TEA parties are not a political party. There are no definitive leaders (and shouldn't be). They are a direct reflection of the anger and retaliation of the original TEA partiers of the 18th century. It was anger that motivated them, after which things did get "nasty" by dumping tea into the bay and eventually leading to a shooting revolution. That is what the current TEA (Taxed Enough Already) movement is founded on. It is NOT a political party.

    And my words, that you so conveniently twist to purport as a "threat," are not that at all. It is a simple observation. I haven't threaten any violent activity at any singular individual. But, the working, taxpaying, patriotic Americans are talking more and more about locking and loading and taking the country back by storm. There are two ex-military officers that you can view on You Tube that are saying exactly that. Their exact words are, "...fixing bayonets, marching on Washington and taking our government back..." My observation is that this is not happening at only a national level. I hear people almost daily over coffee in the morning saying the same thing about our local government. And I can’t say that I disagree with them, but I am certainly not encouraging violence either.

    This country needs to get away from the two-party system. We no longer have two major parties, we have one party with two different factions, both intent on ruling as overlords and taxing us to death so they can get wealthy, not governing in the name of and for the people. This country needs to sh*t can both parties and start voting either conservative or liberal and basing their vote on the ideology of the individual running for office, not their political party associations.

    Also, I am a conservative and a capitalist, and I think this new ruling, allowing corporations to pump as much money into a political campaign as they want to, needs to be overturned. In fact, the ruling should have been to completely eliminate any entity, other than a private individual, from donating any money at all to political campaigns. And, lobbying should be outlawed and called what it really is: legal bribery.

    So please read my responses as they are set forth and quit twisting my words.

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  51. Tim the Shrubber2/11/2010 9:02 AM

    "The TEA parties are not a political party."

    1. Hmmm...sorry that I once wrote 'tea party'. Of course, one would think that given the fact that I four other times wrote 'tea party movement' that it would be pretty clear that I did not think that there is a tea party politicial party.

    2. In all seriousness, however, I bet that you could count on one had the number of Democrats that will ever get support from the tea party movement. So, the end result is that while not the same as the Republican Party, the tea party movement will be a de facto Republican reform movement.

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  52. Tim the Shrubber2/11/2010 9:13 AM

    "They are a direct reflection of the anger and retaliation of the original TEA partiers of the 18th century."

    That is pretty extreme and inaccurate hyperbole. Can the tea party movement use the cry 'No Taxation Without Representation?" Nope, not one bit. They may not like the people in office, but they cannot claim that they were dienfranchised and had no voice in the process.

    The Boston Tea Party was not an inherently anti-tax riot. They did not dump the tea in the harbor because they did not want to pay any taxes of any sort. Sure, the tax was unpopular, but the main complaint was that they were being forced to pay the tax when they could not participate in the process of determining if there should be a tax or not.

    The current tea parties have no equivalent moral claim. I would agree that the tax strucuture is out of whack, spending is out of control, etc. But, there is no reason to be so damn angry and beligerent. We can get these policies changed through the ballot box, an option the people in the colonies did not have.

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  53. Tim the Shrubber2/11/2010 9:19 AM

    "And my words, that you so conveniently twist to purport as a "threat," are not that at all. It is a simple observation."

    Hmmmmmmm....your exact words were,"if we are continued to be pushed, things could very well get nasty." You might not want to use the word 'we' if you do not wish to include yourself in that group. I mean, if I say "We don't like Vikings fan's in Racine, and if one walks into a bar here things could get nasty" it pretty much implies that I might do something violent.

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    "But, the working, taxpaying, patriotic Americans are talking more and more about locking and loading and taking the country back by storm."

    And that is the exactly the talk that will discredit the tea party movement. I am a conservative/libertarian, but I will not support that kind of revolutionary BS because protecting the institution of democracy has to come before ideology.

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  54. Tim the Shrubber2/11/2010 9:24 AM

    "This country needs to get away from the two-party system."

    1. It will not happen. The first-past-the-post elections pretty much create a two-party system. Lot's of political science research out there about that.

    2. In favor of what? The chaos of a multiparty system?

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    "We no longer have two major parties, we have one party with two different factions, both intent on ruling as overlords and taxing us to death so they can get wealthy, not governing in the name of and for the people."

    Okay...so what do you propose? The sentiment has been echoed many times over that past couple hundred years, and many smart people have thought about the problem, yet nothing has changed.

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    "This country needs to sh*t can both parties and start voting either conservative or liberal and basing their vote on the ideology of the individual running for office, not their political party associations."

    Nothing stopping people from doing this now. Perhaps what you are asking is beyond the ability of the average voter.

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  55. Tim, the TEA parties include many conservative and centrist Independents and Democrats, as well as Republicans. It is a “conservative” movement, not a Republican movement. But, it’s obvious that your mind is made up and you will not be persuaded by this fact. I know, I’ve been to every local TEA party in Racine and Milwaukee and have spoken to many centrist and conservative Democrats. Have you?

    You said, “…the main complaint was that they were being forced to pay the tax when they could not participate in the process of determining if there should be a tax or not.” In comparison to the liars and thieves that get elected today, that is exactly what we have. They get elected on the promise of no new, or not raising, taxes and then turn around and do exactly the opposite. And when was the last time a new tax was put to referendum? If that isn’t taxation without representation, what is?

    You said, “We can get these policies changed through the ballot box, “ but in the meantime, between elections, we get fleeced. That seems to be OK with you.

    Tim, I used the word “we” as the collective “we,” meaning taxpaying centrists and conservatives nationwide. Get a grip.

    Regarding the “locking and loading” statement, I did NOT say that was the TEA parties. That is coming from every corner of this country. I expressly said this was related to the ex-military men stating this on You Tube. Quit twisting what I say!

    As far as what I said about the two party system, you obviously don’t have the capacity to understand what you read.

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  56. Maybe it's time to get of Rob Weber the city attorney. He's the one that should be giving the board advice and guidance. He always seems to be involved after the fact. He has been in that position too long and as far as I can see adds no value.

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