August 8, 2009

Ryan's listening session earns a threat on HuffPo

Rep. Paul Ryan's upcoming Racine listening session promises to be a doozy.

That's not necessarily a good thing.

Around the country, union officials report receiving "a barrage of threats" after AFL-CIO President John Sweeney called upon labor unions to participate in the town hall meetings traditionally held by members of Congress during the August recess. According to an article on Huffington Post Thursday, Sweeney "makes clear that Obama allies view the town hall forums as ground zero of the health care debate."

Ryan, R-WI, 1st District, has scheduled 17 listening sessions in this Congressional District between Aug. 24 and Aug. 31, including three in Racine County on Thursday, Aug. 27: at 9:45 a.m. at Rochester Municipal Hall; at 11:15 at Sturtevant Village Hall; and at 1:30 in Racine, in the Great Lakes Room at Gateway Technical College. (Complete list here.)

That last listening session -- the one in Racine -- is featured prominently in a follow-up article on Huffington Post Saturday, and not in a good way. Union officials say the threats they've received "are punctuated by warnings that if organizers were sent to counter-demonstrate at health care town halls, they would be met with violence."

An official with the Service Employees International Union said she had received 50 threatening emails, including the following one, supposedly from a Marine, about Racine's session. (It's been cleaned up for publication.):
You socialist f---s have the nerve to say stop the violence at the town hall meetings when they weren't violent until you p---ies showed up because your n----- leader obama said to?????? When we have ours in Racine, Wi, I want you there. I want one of your little b----- to put his hands on this Marine. I want one of you to look or talk to me wrong. I'll be the last thing your ignorant faux body guards will remember for a very long time. You can f---ing guarantee that.
Huffington Post has roughly 5 million readers, so the Racine threat is getting wide exposure, even before it is picked up by other sites like ours, and this one in Lake County (where the first response says, "the e-mail most likely was made up. Just more liberal BS.")

The unions say they are planning to attend Congressional town hall meetings "to balance out anti-Obama demonstrations being waged at local Democratic forums."

Local Democrats are concerned about the threat. One I spoke to -- who wished to remain anonymous to avoid attracting the threatener's attention -- said, "Oh, great; the most profane threat comes against us in Racine. I don't think I'm a wildly cautious person, but this sort of thing makes me nervous, makes me afraid that it's not particularly safe. In Wisconsin we're friendly. Here, particularly in Racine, we're capable of having calm reasonable conversations. I don't understand this anger."

Meanwhile, at the other end of the political spectrum, another group is also concerned about the town hall meetings, and plans to attend -- to balance out Democrats. We found a website called the 912 Patriots of Southeast Wisconsin.

Karl Heinitz posted Friday: "Paul Ryan's new listening tour dates are out. Let us go and give him and Obama's Squadristi something to listen to. His health care plan is pretty good, so why can't he get it into the hands of a single bluedog? Does he not read the bills or wisely reject large things shoved in his face at 3 a.m.? I would also suggest we not be seen as any kind of organized effort. You know how huffy the fascists and reds get when somebody uses their own tactics against them."

Site organizer Raydene Edenhofer, wrote Saturday, "We need to have video of our participation in town halls as well as rallies. We need to make sure that everyone can see who is really disrupting these events, and how our elected officials are ignoring the people they are supposed to be representing. They say you fight fire with fire... Obama and his minions fired the first shots... we are merely returning fire... like any school yard bully... they don't like being stood up to. Well... let's keep rallying and show them just who they are up against. Americans don't run from a battle or from a challenge. We the People needs to mean something!"

The site, for "Kenosha/Racine Constitutional Patriots," says it grew out of principles introduced by TV and radio host Glenn Beck; it is also the Southeast Wisconsin Glenn Beck Meetup Group. Beck is the broadcaster who recently accused President Obama of being "a racist."


  1. I hope Paul Ryan and the Republican party are proud. They have incited anger deliberately through lies and misrepresentations about the reform plans. Now the lunatics have been set loose.

  2. Where does it say this is in any way related to the Republican Party? As far as I know, Glen Beck does not claim to be a Republican. Sounds like your comments are inciting misplaced hate.

    And as my congressman, I'm glad to see Paul Ryan is offering an alternative plan. Again - how is that inciting anger? Do we not still allow debate in this country?

    Guess alternative views are only permissible if you're a Democrat?

    Listen, this is people's health and potentially lives this plan is dealing with. If you really believe the "debate" is not going to become heated, might be time for you to get your head out of your rear end.

  3. Government Takeover
    Euthanasia for seniors
    Tax funded abortions
    Free care for illegals

    This is the Republican platform on this issue. They piggy backed on the hate speech of Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh. The Republican party allows this to keep happening by not refuting any of it and often times participating.

    They are the reason there cannot be an honest debate because they have yet to say one thing that is honest.

  4. I think you can swap out the name 912 and substitute it with KKK. They are the new generation of white supremacists. Olf angry white people with guns that got scared as they realized they are not the masters of the universe anymore. They actually have to listen to, and work with people not of their color and they are pissed about it.

  5. A proud new era of politics we have here. Shouting down has replaced debate, and a mentality of believe what I want you to or I'll shoot you has replaced civility and honor.

  6. This Glen Beck group waiting on the signal from their Dear Leader on when to pick up their guns and declare war against the government and its people.

    Mindless radiobots that are only capable of taking orders.

  7. The Ryan Health Care Plan is a farce. It does nothing for the middle class american who struggling to survive and maintain a decent standard of living. Family health insurance coverage in SE Wisconsin costs $16,000 to $20,000 a year.

  8. I am a member of the mob and will do everything legal in my power to fight Obama, that is my right to do so.
    My guess is that the Obamabots will of couse call us racists and evil be we do not like what we see and protest it.
    In 14 months we take back Madsin and The House in 4 years with The White house ours again we can roll back Obama move to the left.

    Note my guess is we will have blood on the street soon. Thinking Reichstag fire

  9. The protestors can't even tell you what the alternative plan is and how it differs from the house plan, which by the way, won't be the only plan released.

    What does that tell you about their motives? If Glenn Beck told them to go to these rallies with shaved heads wearing pink ballerina outfits, they would.

    I bet none of these morons have even read the bill! These people should ask themselves a few basic questions.....where did I get my information from to form my opinions? Are they even my opinions or just something I heard and repeated? What if I'm wrong?

    If Beck, Hannity, or Limbaugh is your primary source of news then you are getting a bias, one-sided look at America. They market themselves as the real free thinkers, but they are not. The conservative media is far more powerful and wide reaching than anything else. They are controlling your thoughts, just as you claim the liberal media does. It is up to you to not be a tool.

  10. Colt is a racist!

  11. If there is mis representation about the "plan" on health care it is likely due to there not being a single well defined plan to discuss. The "plan" appears to be a series of "plans" coming out of various committees, the president's own words over the years and the comments of those in his cabinet who are working on the "plan." The other part of the issue is that the CBO (neither rep or dem) says all the "plans" floated will bankrupt the country, which is close to backruptcy already.

    The people I talk to, from all political groups are really concerned about what could end up in the healthcare bill, but even more they are concerned about the extreme spending coming from Washington. Every poll I have seen shows that people fear new taxes to pay for all the new spending when they are already struggling to pay their bills.

    Common sense says this isn't the time to spend more money on a healthcare program that seems to likely look a lot like the ones that are failing in Europe and Canada.

    "Those that don't learn from history are bound to repeat it."

  12. As a senior citizen, I have not been political in the past. I was thinking on going to one of the sessions. I was a union member when I was working. I am now going to make every effort to go to one of the sessions. I do not thing the union leaders have the best interests of the union members at heart anymore. I think they answer to Obama to get more favors. At 76 I think the new plan will restrict my health care and I know many seniors feel the same.

  13. Must be the Fox network contoling my mind. Quick better ban free speech and the right to assemble! Since we right wingers are ill we need care not civil rights. Only Obama and his Bots need freedom and that if they only follow blindly.
    The White House should monitor my speech read my emails that God Obama has not repealed the patriot act!

    In fact Obama should deputize ever Union member UAW and WEC for sure) so the UAW can go door to door at take our guns and computers and the teachers to help the government monitor what goes on in the homwe

  14. Service Employees International Union Independent Expenditures

    Election cycle: 2008
    Independent Expenditures, Communication Costs and Coordinated Expenses as of July 13, 2009:
    Total For Democrats: $29,955,859
    Total Against Democrats: $250,060
    Total For Republicans: $0
    Total Against Republicans: 5,892,537

    Candidate Office Total For
    Obama, Barack (D) President $27,741,573 Against $0

    Do you think the unions are biased.

  15. Aug. 27 should be real interesting in Racine. They're holding listening sessions on the same day that Simanek is scheduled to drop the charges against Becker. Might be time to break out the flak jackets. By the way, does the universal health care bill include coverage for sex addiction?

  16. 10:20

    Your being watched! Quick what's that email adress again?

  17. I am getting so confused! Is Obama a socialist, a fascist, or a Nazi? Could one of the Republicans please clarify which is correct today?

  18. Thank you Pete for shining a light on this nasty furtive nest in Racine.

    These folks have the right to have their little club, but when they start threatening people, they've gone too far.

    They believe in Democracy, but shout down thoughtful debate. They are frightening.

  19. Rees Roberts8/09/2009 10:32 AM

    colt said...

    "I am a member of the mob and will do everything legal in my power to fight Obama, that is my right to do so......Note my guess is we will have blood on the street soon. Thinking Reichstag fire"

    Notice Colt says legal in the first part and then ends with inciting fear of blood shed at the end. You can't have it both ways.

    Colt, this country was built to protect your right of free "speech". However, you do not have the right to shout "fire" in a theater when there is none.

    You are only inciting fear, which is what the conservatives have done in recent times. Fear that if you come to this meeting you might get hurt. Hoping, as a result, that less people will come to the listening session.

    Colt, you and those of your kind (conservatives) are not making any points with the majority of people who want reason to prevail. There is no room for this kind of politics.

    I hope the Racine Police Dept. will be in attendance to assure that people will be able to give their opinions fear free to their elected officials.

    Colt, you have no right to take anyone's 2nd amendment rights away from them. Making threats saying you wouldn't be surprised at violence is downright criminal. Dustin and Pete, you should recognize that and take any of those kind of comments off of your web site. The quicker the better.

    Having said this, I also believe no side to this health care issue has the "right" to use violence or fear of violence. I condemn it as any reasonable person would.

  20. John Steinbeck would be proud of the use of one of his plot lines!

    1. Democrats and other Obama-ites either expound upon the scant few threats - or plant them.
    2. Show up at meeting and start a fuss
    3. Those "against" government health care look bad
    4. Police, military, etc. now has to "protect" those who favor government health care
    4. Rinse and repeat, tumble dry low heat

  21. RR

    Drink some coffee and read history the Reichstag fire was set by the Nazi to take away right in Germany, just like I feel Obama has a plan for something like that to further take away our rights.

    "the majority of people who want reason to prevail. There is no room for this kind of politics."

    Then you have nothing to fear from elections do you nor should you be afraid of the meetings going on to plan legal actions to stop what I think the majority does not want.

    RR however you know if Obama does not get this now he never will you know and FEAR the fact that 2012 we will swing back to the right.

    "You are only inciting fear, which is what the conservatives have done in recent times. Fear that if you come to this meeting you might get hurt. Hoping, as a result, that less people will come to the listening session."

    Am I? I do not fear public meeting I may worry about being jumped by Acorn or Union thugs but not much.

  22. There are TWO health care bills coming to the floor of the House in September. NEITHER are Paul Ryan's.

    The first one, HR 3200, is the one that still keeps the private insurance companies in the process and proclaims to offer a "public option" for those who qualify through a series of conditions. I do not endorse this plan, due to its ambiguity and inability to really solve the health care crisis.

    The second bill, HR 676, is expanded and improved Medicare for the entire country. This plan is called SINGLE PAYER. This would be 100% guaranteed coverage for all Americans regardless of pre-existing condition or job transfer. It is the ONLY plan that guarantees everybody in and nobody out.

    Single Payer is publicly funded, but privately driven by you and your doctor. It is NOT the socialized government takeover that the right wing keep trying to scare us with.

    Also, for those of you who keep thinking that you don't want to pay for "poor or lazy people" as I hear so often. I got news for you. We all already pay for the indigent, because the medical providers pass the loss on to those who can afford to pay. Under a Single Payer plan, we would pay LESS for those unable to pay for themselves.

    You can compare the two bills by clicking on this link.

    As for the plan proposed by our PAC bought congressman, it is a re-tread of the same old GOP plan of segregating access, privatization, and shuffling the chronically ill/high risk to state funded pools. It will not diminish costs for anyone; just move them around in a shell game.
    Don’t be sucked in by the flashy bumper sticker slogans he puts forth promoting “his” plan. The most innovative, and disgusting twist, to this plan is the over-rated tax credit he promotes which leaves the end user/consumer paying EVEN MORE for their health insurance and let’s private employers off the hook of providing health benefits for their employees. So if you are wealthy and healthy you will be just fine.

    We can all go out and talk to our congressman at his upcoming listening sessions.
    However, I have already heard a rumor that Ryan’s Janesville listening session has been rescheduled to an invite only phone conference call. If anyone can verify, please post. So, it makes you wonder what will happen to the remaining sessions if this be the case for Janesville.

  23. Going to read the Turner Diaries today.

  24. and I wonder why people call you racists...?

  25. StopthemadnessNOW8/09/2009 11:16 AM

    This is SCARY stuff - from both sides of the debate. Let's all hope and pray that cooler heads prevail.

  26. The marching orders are out and being obeyed.

    The White House wants followers to "report distortions". David Axelrod wants followers to "punch back twice as hard".

    SEIU is marching. Pete is marching. The true Post followers are marching.

    An excellent alternative news source is turning into just another opinion source. (BUT THANKS FOR LABELING OPINION PIECES ONCE IN A WHILE).

  27. Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
    Thomas Jefferson

  28. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

    Is it that time? If so to act now before our rights are gone!

  29. Oh for cryin' out loud, get over yourselves already!

    This isn't the revolution and you guys aren't Paul Revere. Please! You are small-minded, small-town, country hick crackers!

    Why don't you guys find a hobby doing some kind of revolution reenactments because that's about as deep as your philosophy goes.

    Glenn Beck?! hahahahahahhahahah!

  30. Paulette,

    So please provide all of us with what make government experts in the delivery lower cost healthcare? How have they done with Medicare, Medicade and Vet hospitals? Good track record in your eyes?

    What examples can you give us that government can deliver any program, entitlement or otherwise, efficiently and at a lower cost?

    This isn't about lowering costs. This is about redistribution of wealth by people with elitist thoughts that only government can provide the solutions. It is always easy to make somebody else work for your entitlement, isn't it? This is the liberal credo.

    Heck, government can't even administer Cars for Clunkers run the USPS or FEMA and Medicare without burning through the cash. Why do you think this will be any less of a disaster?

    If you think people are mad now, just wait until Obamacare doesn't deliver what it says. It will make the listen session look like a picnic.

    Curt Foreman

  31. I agree with Curt Foreman's comments. We need to abolish these elitish wealth redistribution government health care boondoggles like Medicare, Medicade and the Veterans Administraion. Just another liberal socialist money grab from from hard working american patriots like Curt and Colt and give it to a bunch of freeloaders.

  32. I don't know about Medicaid because it's generally administered by the states, but Medicare and VA administrative costs are significantly lower than private insurance companies'. Less the profits and the marketing dollars, they're lower still.

  33. Oh, and I'm an American patriot who worked hard and paid my taxes for more than 40 years to earn those benefits, so I resent being called a freeloader!

    I'd imagine the millions of others who earned their Social Security/Medicare benefits would probably agree with me.

  34. 2:14

    its a company's profit that pays WAGES and BENEFITS.

    "Is Life so dear and peace so sweet..."

  35. ... Not to mention the millions of veterans who paid for their VA benefits in blood.

  36. Randolph,

    You missed the point. Have you ever been treated at or been inside a VA hospital? If this is the best we can offer for our vets, it's a disgrace. Poor service and crummy facilities controlled by our government. The same folks who have the answers for the masses with Obamacare.

    Curt Foreman

  37. I get to choose my own doctor and my own care under "Obamacare," at All Saints, so far as I know.

    They tell me VA's lots better after the new guys booted the old guard out.

  38. Randolph,

    Social Security is your money. Don't you understand that. Government collected it from you for the past fourty years because they knew you couldn't be trusted to manage your own savings for retirement. It's a great ponzi scheme just like the one Bernard Madof engineered and went to jail for.

    Again Randolph, why do you think government is qualified to deliver healthcare?

    Curt Foreman

  39. I guess it's the medically effective database that has the greatest appeal for me. I've had a lot of experience with the medical community over the years.

    Now, my history's pretty complicated, and I've been to a dozen different doctors who've prescribed a dozen different treatments, some of which have helped, some of which haven't.

    With a computerized database of most-effective treatments, my primary care physician could have the benefit of thousands, perhaps millions of patient examples and outcomes to match to my particular set of symptoms and circumstances.

    He does his best now, but that sort of data is hard to come by under the current crazy-quilt system.

    I'd trust a solid database of medical information much more than I trust the promises of drug companies on their TV commercials.

  40. Curt Foreman'

    There is no such thing as "Obamacare". There are five different health care plan being worked on by legislative committees, none of which have been proposed by President Obama. You must be talking to Colt too often!

  41. Info,

    Actually, Social Security's giving me a better return than my annuity, and lots, lots better than my 401k did, so it's turned out to be a pretty good investment, so long as the nay-sayers don't muck it up.

  42. "They tell me VA's lots better after the new guys booted the old guard out."

    What in the world does this mean? In the last six months the VA has been transformed into a wonderful place full of shining happy people? How? The entire medical staff was replaced? The new incredibly-caring administration brought in new wonderful people who threw billions at the system when no one was looking?

  43. I don't know, Anon ... it's just what my veteran friends say. Maybe they just got lucky this time.

    But you're right, nothing could as been as bad as it was a couple years ago.

  44. ... credit (or blame) where it's due, the new administration did request the largest single year increase in VA funding.

    But, hell, man, don't you know there's a war on?

    These guys are going to need it.

    And they deserve it, too!

  45. Nothing to good for the Vets.

    Troule is that Obama care will just be like the VA in the 80'-90's

  46. Oh, and enough with the freakin' "government death squads" already.

    Wouldn't it be a good idea to encourage doctors and patients to discuss what end-of-life care they'd like to have, and whether they have a power of attorney for healthcare?

    You know, like they already ask you EVERY TIME you visit All Saints, a sectarian hospital with a proud religious tradition?

    Well, maybe not, especially if you want to be hooked up to breathing tubes and feeding tubes for an indefinite period - the default choice - instead of going out naturally.

    If Terry Shiavo had had such a document, we wouldn't have had to put her family through such a circus.

  47. Whatever happened to the "caring means sharing" administration's proposal to get war veterans' (the reservists) employers' insurance companies to foot the bill for health care?

  48. Anon 8:01, how do you like it now that the Republicans are using the same tactics as you liberals? Lies and deceit are all the liberals have used for decades!

    Anon 8:10, anytime someone does not agree with a liberal they are tagged as Republican, regardless of whether they are another Democrat, a Libertarian, a Constitutionalist, or any other type of conservative.

    Anon 8:18, read the bill and listen to what the liberals are saying. Obama already signed into law tax funded abortions for minors. It was the first bill he signed when he got into office. It's even illegal to inform their parents. That's down right anti-American. Euthanasia for seniors IS in the bill. They even admit that this bill will benefit the Hispanic population more than anyone else (i.e. free health care for illegals). It IS a liberal/socialist/facist takeover of the health care system.

    Anon 8:22, the 912 group stands for defending the rights of ALL Americans, where do you read racism and bigotry into that? And you apparently disagree with out 2nd amendment rights. And are we pissed about you immoral leftists destroying the morality and fabric of what this country stands for? You bet you sweet bippy we are!

  49. Anon 8:36, you are right in half of what you say. But remember it was Obama giving his ACORN and union thugs (his brownshirts) the orders to shout down anyone who disagreed with his minions at the listening sessions. But, I guess we can't call them "listening" sessions anymore can we, if our voices are silenced.

    Anon 9:01, you don't have to be a mindless robot to recognize a socialist takeover when you see one. I guess we're no different from the mindless robots that picked up their guns back in 1776 when they saw the writing on the wall and moved to stop it. The O'Nazi movement needs to be stopped!

    Anon 9:24, in the beginning of all this mess, when the liberals refused to listen to anything the Republicans had to say (except for the 3 Republican traitors) we were told they had nothing to offer. Now that they have pressed the issue and DO have something to offer, you don't like that either. You can't have it both ways.

    Anon 9:46, now we hear that we can't even tell you what's in the Republican offer. You see quite uninformed. Maybe you should contact Anon 9:24, he can tell you what's in the bill. He's telling us how bad the Republican bill is, so he must know.

    Anon 9:50, how do you glean anything out of Colt's statement that says he's a racist? Just because he doesn't agree with the socialist in the Oval Office doesn't make him a racist! You need to get your head out of Anon 8:22's butt.

    Anon 10:26, the term "Nazi" in an acrony taken from the German spelling of National Socialist (i.e. NAtionalsoZIalist). Fascists are a sect of the National Socialist party. Hitler was a socialist and Mousollini was a fascist. Liken it to Democrats and liberals. Liberals are the hard left extremist sect of the Democratic party.

  50. Anon 10:30, you are right, the O'Nazi crowd have had a light shined on them and they have gone to far by Der Furher Obama laying down orders to shout anyone down at a listening session who disagrees with him.

    Rees, Colt and his kind (conservatives) are the majority of the people. The problem with the conservatives is that they don't get off their butts and get out and vote. But now that you socialists have pushed us to the edge, I think you are going to see different in the upcoming elections. Adios liberals, fascist, socialist and Nazis.

    Anon 12:12 and Anon 12:24, Amen.

    Anon 12:59, it's good to see you have that attitude and will so unprepared when things explode. I hope all of your liberal friend are just as "prepared" as you are.

    Randolph, if you worked and paid into the system for 40+ years, you are entitled to everything you can get back out of it. But, think about how much better or more cost effective it would be if a large sum of what you have paid in wasn't redistributed to people who refuse to work or spent on the criminal illegal aliens receiving welfare and free health care. The billions of dollars spent on the loafers and the illegals could go a long way to helping those productive U.S. citizens that need help paying for health care.

    Randolph, you are correct that our returning vets need and deserve everything we can provide for them. But you seem to be supporting an administration that has been reported in the news as referring to them, not as returning vets deserving of our thanks, but as potential terrorists because of the military tactics they learning during their service. The O'Nazis are scare to death of them because they know when they see what has been going on over here in their absence that they will take the side of those who want to set thing right.

  51. This is getting way out of hand, gentlemen.

    "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

    This is a pretty good Republican principle.

    “We are determined to make every American citizen the subject of his country’s interest and concern; and we will never regard any faithful law-abiding group within our borders as superfluous. The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

    This is a pretty good Democratic principle.

    And I think they’re saying the same thing.

  52. It's really funny that so many of the posts here talk about "Listening" sessions and getting to talk TO your representative. It appears that the reps are doing all the talking and not taking any questions from the floor seriously - even if the audience is allowed to speak. And, yes, I've read both house bills from the government site - not the "comparison" site or any other site. Don't like any of them, including Kennedy's Senate bill.

  53. Anon,

    I've been disappointed as well. Thus far, I don't know that any of the so-called listening sessions around here really wanted to hear from people who (a) couldn't get health care; (b) got excluded for pre-existing conditions; (c) can't really afford what's basically an additional mortgage payment a month for health insurance, even if they can buy any health insurance at all; (d) wander from one doctor to another without any nationwide standards for effective treatment; (e) haven't had a meaningful way of expressing their end-of-life choices; (f) don't really know what they're going to do next if their health care's cancelled when they get laid off, or their retirement fund's bankrupt; (g) can't get bureaucratic approval from their insurance companies for necessary care; (h) are unemployed to begin with and have no health-care coverage anyway ... it goes on and on.

    I'm sick (literally) and tired of the political ideologues dominating this debate, when the truth is, there are some really serious practical concerns here that need to be fixed for everybody.

  54. I lost my job two years ago, and I'm disabled and cannot work.

    So, in addition to what amounts to an extra mortgage payment per month for health insurance coverage, there's the thousands of dollars in medical expenses that aren't covered by anyone, except me.

    And now my health insurance, for which I pay one and half times the normal cost, is running out, without any prospect for buying another policy on the private market because of my disability, what they call a pre-existing condition.

    Hopefully, I'll qualify for a government option here in Wisconsin, called HIRSP, though that's iffy, especially whether they'll cover a pre-existing condition or not.

    Still, I've been lucky so far. I've been able to afford to keep paying and paying and paying, holding on until I can qualify for Medicare.

    But what about those who can't pay? And all those others who also find themselves just one sickness away or one layoff away from crisis?

    Anybody who hasn't faced these issues is just lucky. But just wait, you will eventually face them, one way or another.

    Or, maybe you won't.

    So, you feelin' lucky there, Buck?

    Never can tell.

    This is madness. It can't go on, with folks living on a roulette wheel this way.

    There are certain basics that are needed in life, and health care is one of them, regardless of who you are or what station in society you occupy.

    Is is right to deny someone needed care, regardless of who they are, what they do or where they come from?

    We need to reform this system now, for everybody.

    You never know when you're going to wind up on the short end of this deal.

    Believe me, it can happen to you.

  55. You know, if our Senate and congressional representatives don't stand up here now and fix this, they deserve to wear that shame forever.

  56. "Do you think the unions are biased."

    They are supposed to be. They are a private organization. It's our congressmen who are not supposed to be biased or let money influence their policy and votes.

  57. RNR,

    Good point. When will they represent people with needs instead of the interests who pay them?

  58. This is all about the republican party and the insurance companies that partially own them.
    Do an hour of research and find out who's funding and manipulating all this crap and see for yourselves.
    Do you think Ryan would ever support anything that didn't end up being directly related to making more campaign funds for himself?

  59. Anon,

    I'm so sorry, but you are right.

  60. Obama = more free benefits

    Free Benifits for no work = slave to the Government

    Slave to Obama = re-election

  61. My guess is we will hear more and more from the paid Acorn/UAW type called Randolph in the days to come in order to try and regain control of this issue.

  62. The amazing thing in all this is that no one is addressing the REAL issue: the COST of health care. Address the things that drive the costs up and insurance premiums will come down. I know a woman whose prescription cost $3,000.00 per month! There is no reason on God's green earth that one pill should cost $100.00. If her husband's health insurance through work wasn't paying that rediculous cost the premium would be cosiderably less. The same with malpractice insurance; put a monetary cap on these lawsuits so doctors wouldn't have to pay $150,000.00+ per year in premiums and the cost of doctors would go down drastically. Tort reform in the medical industry would go a long way. And on, and on...

  63. This anti ObamaCare crosses all party lines. Are you telling me that those at the meetings were all Republicans - I don't think so. I think union leaders are out of touch with a lot of their members that are against this outrageous plan.

  64. You are all missing the point. The state of health insurance coverage is in crisis in the United States. employers are dropping coverage for employees and retirees everyday. Units of government are struggling to pay for coverage for their employees and medicare is broke! If the system is not reformed soon no one will have health insurance.

    Rather than making racist statement and stirring up unfounded fear we all should be talking with our elected officials and supporting the in their efforts to provide a decent level of care for all Americans.

    It is time to work together rather than calling those with opposing views names.

  65. Colt has been a racist for a long time. What he needs to do is take a bath or a shower and maybe he can get medical attention. Colt get a LIFE, on second thought GET LOST!!

  66. Whoever claimed that we're "friendly" here in badnews Badgerland doesn't know Racine and its polarized people. On the one hand, we have the rich and entrepreneurial rightwingers who inhabit radiant Ray-Scene. By and large, they're flourishing financially and don't want to see major changes in our socio-economic system. Standing at their side are some unlikely allies--a segment of the working and lower-middle classes dreaming of admission to the winner's circle and willing to do the privileged clique's dirty tasks in exchange for a chance to acquire a little loot. On the other hand, we have a much larger group of paupers, workers and lower-middle class folks trapped in Rat-Scene. For them and for their academic allies, the system is broken beyond repair and must be replaced. One thing is certain--neither the dollar-sign denizens of Ray-Scene nor the downtrodden toilers and their intellectual pals in Rat-Scene can tolerate each other. The story of Racine is a modern-day "Tale of Two Cities" which could end in a tragic class clash which will benefit no one except the vultures.

  67. Anon 10:35 - Pepole have choices in this city . Do something about their situation, go to school, learn a trade etc. It takes time and sacrifice, but the future is in their own hands to have a better life. It sounds like you are one of those people who just like to complain and not do anything to better yourself - the rich are against me boo hoo. Get out and make something of your self. Quit taking the easy way out.

  68. Before this (Obama) is over thing there will be blood. Of course it will be Bush's fault and we will see marshal law. The beginning of the Obama I years

  69. Obama - the 1 term Jimmy Carter President.

  70. Is everyone crazy? threats of blood shed? What the hell is this all about? Who is losing their liberty? who is losing anything? In my position I talk with people from all over the U.S. and all over the World for that matter, and it seems like they all get it. Is just you little people who sit behind their computer screen that see things differently than the rest of the world. You all need to get a life, the sky is not falling, our government is not taking your freedom to anything, the fact that you can spew the ugliness that you do is proof of that. This is craziness at the ultimate level, now everyone take a deep breathe and have a nice day.

  71. Anon 11:26 we don't need a government plan when only 10% are without insurance. I don't want it and we are now seeing that the majority of the population does not want it. The governement can't even run SS, Medicare or Medicade. Let's not let them screw up another program.

  72. Dustin and Pete - you guys are so biased. This article you wrote is totally unsustantiated and the Huffington Post is a rag left winged website that has no credibility at all. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for writing such an article.

  73. Obama knows whats best for us
    1) Pay Taxes
    2) Pay more taxes
    3) Pay even more taxes to pay off everyone Obama owes favors to
    4) Pay more taxes to pay for the Trillion dollars in hole we are now and the trillions more to come
    5)Reduce your energy use and pay 30% more in Cap and Trade costs
    6) Shut up
    7) If you do not do the above your a hater, a raciest, and do not deserve any rights.
    8) Your neighbor or child's teacher has informed on you so please report to the re education camp
    9) Obama loves you
    10) Think Positively!

  74. As one of the people quoted in this article based on a comment I made to other members of the 912 group of SE WI, I am very upset at the portrayal this article is giving our group. The comment you quoted in the article was one made after the White House started an email account asking citizens to turn in fellow citizens and after innocent citizens were starting to be verbally and physically attacked by SIEU members at Town Halls across the nation. In other words it is a comment I made after being told that my anger at what has been happening in this country is "manufactured anger" and insinuating that I am some sort of anti-American extremist or racist. All of those insinuations are as far from correct as possible.

    You and many of your readers based on some of these comments fail to mention that at the Racine County Fair, our booth was the ONLY booth that had an ACTUAL printed copy of the Health Care Bill on display. We had information available on both the House Bill 3200 and the Senate Kennedy Bill. The Democratic booth had neither. Also, many members of our group spoke with Congressman Ryan when he was at the fair and he was impressed that we had as much information identifying questionable areas of the Health Care bill considering the House had only received it about 10 days prior. WE explained to anyone who came to our table that we wanted to educate them about the bill so they could make their own decisions about it based on facts, not on any person's or party's slant. We provided people with information on how to look up the bills and follow the legislation for themselves. In other words, unlike the people who are lashing out at the Republicans or at us and name calling, we choose to remain non-partisan in our group and provide information to all citizens because unlike so many in DC right now, we believe that Americans are capable of making up their own minds regarding issues. Based on what is happening at the Town Halls, I think I am right. Americans are getting tired of having Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Feingold, Kohl, etc telling us what we need or that despite what we want or how we feel, they know better.

    Also, you send out this story now when you can try to excite even more disruption...makes for good copy I guess. Where were you a few weeks ago when there was the Health Care Forum in Racine...we were there...we didn't disrupt anyone or anything. We were also not allowed a chance to ask questions but we listened to what the speakers had to say... If we were part of some big organized national movement to disrupt, wouldn't we have bussed in all these people the media and those on the left claim we are bussing to these events? Wouldn't we have been loud and disruptive since that is what is being claimed we are doing? Wouldn't we be standing at the entrances and blocking anyone who thinks differently than us from entering...oh wait...those are the tactics of the members of the left...

    If I am to be quoted in an article, I would appreciate the writer of that article having the decency to contact me directly for a quote rather than hiding behind reading comments on a website and choosing which wording in that comment might be the most inciteful. And to those hiding behind the name "anonymous" before you try to in any way link me to ANY group like the KKK or NAZIs, I suggest you come talk to me personally. I will educate you on how truly wrong you are. It is out of disdain for groups such as those that I work so hard at defending our Constitution and the principles upon which this country was formed.

  75. "If Beck, Hannity, or Limbaugh is your primary source of news then you are getting a bias, one-sided look at America."

    Same could be said about HuffPo, but that did not stop Pete from acting like this is honest news. I wish I could say I expected better from Racine Post, but it seems that Pete is always wants to undercut the more serious reporting on the site.

  76. A) WE'RE anybody listening
    B) Why is everybody asking what the GOVERNMENT can do for you....what happened to "personal responsibility? All I hear is ...gimme, gimme, gimme. DO IT YOURSELF.

  77. SIMPLE...............if this is REALLY a good thing, then I'll bet all the elected, appointed, administration officials, plus the bureaucrats can't wait to get on this health care deal ...............WRONG..WRONG..WRONG..WRONG. No?? Wonder why.

  78. Everyone keeps saying we should talk to our elected officials. Yeah, we have been. We write letters, send email, and call them. We attend their "listening" sessions and try to ask questions. We get back form letters that completely ignore what we say. We get shouted down or escorted out of town hall meetings. So just how are we supposed to "talk to our representatives?" And some of you think we are not losing our freedoms? What planet are you on?

  79. Raydene Edenhofer says:

    "Where were you a few weeks ago when there was the Health Care Forum in Racine...we were there...we didn't disrupt anyone or anything."

    She fails to note the post on the forum thread by her colleague Mr. Willock, also a member of this "non-partisan" Glenn Beck fan club on the morning of the forum:

    "I enjoy a liberal calling me Mr. Willock and it seems you know so much about me, I'm flattered. Did you like the 357 I was wearing at the picnic. Some would call me paranoid. I say why should I be paranoid? I'm wearing a gun."

    and again by him later in the day:

    "...that little stunt made by the girl in brown, taking pictures of us (me) and wasting the time of the police was laughable. I'm sure next time they won't send two cars. Did she really think the Racine Police were going to violate our civil rights over her little communist agenda."

    Yes, very "non-partisan" and thoughtful. They just want to "educate".

  80. Raydene - where is your outrage over Paul Ryan's plan that gives you a pay decrease and takes away your health care coverage - only to throw you into a State (also read as GOVERNMENT) pool with nothing more than $5000 and a good luck?

    Your members have been on this site threatening liberals with violence and insinuating they will take back this city with gunfire and violence. The same kind of idiots that would shout over each other at a town hall saying that they aren't being heard.

    Everyone hears you loud and clear. You are on the verge of domestic terrorism. You can't win with votes, so you try to win with guns.

    And yes, you are partisan Republicans because that is who you vote for. I know the Republican name has taken a beating....makes sense why you would want to ditch them now after years of support. Instead you call yourselves conservatives. Same thing.

    All you do is whine and complain about Democrats. That makes you partisan. You support nothing tangible and only seek to oppose and destroy.

    Glenn Beck won't be there when your premiums are through the roof and your employer drops coverage. He'll spin it as a victory for from the confines of healthcare.

    Every reason these radiobots have given for opposing this plan has been proven false.

    You want to be heard, but obviously have nothing to say.

    I'll shut up now before you start shooting.

  81. From Raydene Edenhofer's Twitter:

    * Name: Raydene Edenhofer
    * Location: Wisconsin
    * Bio: I am one of those Right Wing Radical Extremists that the DHS warned you other words, I'm an American.


    "I am convinced that the Devil himself has set up housekeeping in the White House."
    4:25 PM Apr 28th from web

  82. Pete and Dustin wrote this article just to stir things up. Their motive is clear. To increase readership to their web site at our expense.

    Remember folks, the media, no matter if it is CNN, CNBC, Fox, Journal Times and even The Racine Post will do whatever it takes "in THEIR best interest."

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it. There are no innocent people whacking at this.

    Each side of this has turned evil. This country certainly isn't the better for it. I just hope everyone grows up before its too late. This is no BS. I honestly am ashamed of the goings on here. Whatever happened to people being civil with each other?

  83. Conversely, trying to say publications that refuse to acknowledge this story are credible and can be trusted because they censored it is bizarre. Ignorance is power only if you're too dumb to think for yourself, so lets' kill the messenger.

    Kudos to the Racine Post for bringing this very credible but controversial matter into local discussion.

  84. Anon 1:04 - looks like she's got things pretty well pegged from these comments.

  85. I don't believe BOTH sides have gotten ugly. It seems the people who want reform have stated over and over why it's needed, while the other side is just so bizarre!

    What is with this right wing radical extremist thing and the guns?! Calling the President the Devil?

    You people are seriously misinformed and damaged.

  86. Glenn Beck just wants to sell books. The more he can stir people up, the more books he sells. These people are just feeding his ego and his wallet.

    If Glenn Beck was so great, then he would run for President. But he won't do that because he is afraid that instead of criticizing all the time, he would actually have to come up with an idea. Imagine that.

    He's a general that would never show up for the battle. What a great man and patriot. Get others to do the work for you and then claim it as a victory for yourself.

  87. That woman practically calls herself a terrorist on her twitter!!!!!

  88. Anon 1:14 - Socialist Obama now runs the banking system, the auto industry, under funded social security and medicare - why unearth would we want him to control our health care. Government controlled health care would be the worst thing other than those things previously mentioned. If we turn to government controlled health care there is no turning back. It's not as if you can say, well if it does not work (and it won't) we'll just go back to what we had. If this goes through it will be the worst political decision made in the last 50 years.

  89. The government DOES NOT:

    1. Own the banking system
    2. Own the auto industry

    The proposed health care reform IS NOT a government takeover. There is only a public OPTION.

    I dare the opponents of the reform bill to come up with 5 good reasons not to do it. I will debunk them all.

    Go ahead and try! You will fail because you don't have any information that you didn't hear on the radio.

  90. on earth that is.

  91. Some people don't know sarcasm when they see it.

  92. I think this forum is GREAT. Your side, my side, no side...just a comment. This is good to get all this stuff on the table so we can each evaluate it and make our own determination if it's good for the country WE want to live in. I thought that's what our country was all about.

  93. Hard for you to refute what is in black and white in H.R. 3200 at the government Library of Congress site. I don't believe half of what I hear or see or read except when you read the "officia" source. If we can't believe that, then we are definitely in trouble.

  94. roy - ObamaCare would be good for 10% of the population - that is NOT what we want!

  95. YUP.....we're in trouble. I don't want the government anywhere near me or my doctor.

    Oh, did I mention that the country is BANKRUPT. HELLLLLOOOOOOO

  96. C'mon radiobots.....put your money where your mouth is. Let's see what you've got.

    5 good reasons to oppose this bill.

  97. Anon 10:30, I am a Republican, a conservative and live in a fairly nice part of town. I was a business owner until just recently who has been taxed, over-regulated and totally screwed out of business. There are not two factions such as you suggest. There are several: there are very few truly rich people in Racine, there is the mid-to-upper-middle class that are trying desperately to hold on to their jobs or businesses, there are the lower-to-mid middle class that are losing their jobs at a steady rate because the town government is over-taxing and over-regulating their employers right out of town, there is the lower-middle-class to poor that are in the same boat, and many of the so-called "poor" that are that way because they refuse to be productive and prefer to suck off the taxes that the other groups pay (of these I am talking about those on welfare who COULD work but WON't, and the illegals that should be run out of this country). The worst thing of all is that our own city government is just as much to blame as the state and Fed. Those who are not taxed and regulated to death are otherwise exploited into financial servitude with free handouts.

    We all agree that something needs to be done, but leftist, Marxist socialism isn't the answer. From the O'Nazis in the Fed to the liberal idiots running Madison to the do-nothing mayor recently elected in Racine, we are in a sad state of affairs. The answer is to vote out EVERY incumbent, no matter what their record is. Elect all new people. Only elect the ones that promise to impose term limits, end special interest lobbying, end the practice of paying any kind of retirement income to politicians, agree to do away with the "from dollar one" free health care that politicians currently get and are willing to go on the same health care plan as everyone else, make laws that protect our citizens rather than exploit them, stop policing the whole world, stop sending money we can't afford to countries that hate us, and agree to flat or national sales tax reform. Then maybe we'll get something done. But as long as we have career politicians with only their own well-being at heart, nothing will change.

    It appears that Anon 11:26 is not "sitting behind (his) computer screen" and seeing things differently. In fact, he's not seeing them at all. If he can't see that we are losing our liberties on almost a daily basis, he hasn't listened to a word Heir Obama or Frau Pelosi has said.

  98. First reason...............I don't want the government to do much of anything for me except protect my borders.

  99. "so-called poor"


  100. He qualified the so called poor - those that can work but elect not too. There certainly a faction that fits that category - so nice is correct.

  101. They usually refer to them as the idle rich. 17% unemployment is real unlike your world view.

  102. The "poor" in our country fare better than 3/4 of the people on this earth. Let's look at the hours in a day, and see how those hours are put to use. Is it possible that there is a "mis-allocation" of effort/committment.

  103. These people talk about guns, drop the N-word, call the President the devil, congratulate themselves for acting like terrorists and spread nothing but lies to fuel their racist, hateful agenda.

    You are swine. Nasty. Dirty. Swine.

  104. I understand they're initiating a new the Chinese will give money directly to the "needy", thereby eliminating the middleman (U.S. government), but will still collect the interest on that money from that middleman.

  105. 2:14 - you are an idiot.

  106. I wonder why they would give that money to OUR needy.....and not to THEIR needy.....hhhmmmmmm

  107. "The answer is to vote out EVERY incumbent, no matter what their record is. Elect all new people."

    While we wait for that to happen, the monopolized health care industry continues to wreak havoc on the economy and confiscate over 1/3 of our wages.

  108. "First reason...............I don't want the government to do much of anything for me except protect my borders"

    Great. The government isn't forcing you into the public option. You don't have to do anything.

  109. Wreak havoc........... Can't you just go to the doctor, then pay him ?

  110. I agree with you Roy. We should be able to pay the doctor with money right out of our everyday pocket allowance. Instead of through a maze of pencil pushing efficiency experts cutting any corner they can to deny me health care so they can boost profits. Why should a colonoscopy cost $4,000 instead of $200? Technology? Education? Because the free markets demand it? Baloney.

  111. 11:27
    "2. Own the auto industry"

    We certainly own G.M We get to tell Chrysler what to do and when to do it.

    Obama will will wipe out Heath Care in this land as he is doing to the economy.

  112. 2:14 - I have no problem with the n word when it describes a certain group of African Americans just as I don't mind the term white trash as describing a portion of the white community. Neither group is good for the city or the nation. They drag down the economy and do nothing to better themselves or the communities they live in.

  113. Anon 2:39

    Owning GM hardly amounts to the government owning the auto industry. Chrysler is under the control of Fiat, not the White House.

    Obama is not wiping out the economy. It hit crisis mode before he was even sworn in! Years and years of issues finally came to a head, and you can't fix it in 6 months - sorry. That would have been true no matter who won the presidency.

    Obama can't ruin health insurance because it is already a mess and getting worse by the day. Be thankful that you have a job with insurance.

    If Paul Ryan gets his way, you'll won't have employer sponsored insurance (or the money they kick in for it). Now that's ruining health insurance!

  114. ObamaCare will ruin our health care - there is nothing wrong with what we have today.

  115. Anon 2:39

    You said it all. We have a health insurance mess that is getting worse each day. Ryan's proposal will not help any of us. What we have today will not be here next year unless there is meaningful reform!

  116. StatusQuoCare is unaffordable and unsustainable for the vast majority of Americans. The more folks read the bills and become engaged in debate, the more they'll remember why they wanted reform.

  117. The town hall meetings only turn nasty when someone
    asks a reasonable question and the answer is a bald faced lie. We won't put up with lies.

  118. LouKaye - it's affordable to me and most. We don't want to change for 10% of the population.

  119. Great news. You get to keep what you have.

  120. LouKaye that is BS - if this goes into effect all business will stop subsidizing insurance plans and we'll all be stuck with this socialistic health care. There will be no choices. Businesses are just waiting to drop this expense. ObamaCare will give them their opening.

  121. This is really dumb, there are perhaps 25 blogging on this topic and so far it is strictly partisan. If you are a Dem you support President Obama, if your a rep you oppose anything and everything he says or does. As a business owner I saw the recession coming in 2007 but the Bush admin would not admit it. Now its easy for the right to blame President Obama for the recession after 180 days in office. I was an independent voter until Bush rushed us in to a war with Iraq. Now those that supported Bush are telling us not to trust anything President Obama does and to trust them again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

  122. Obama wanted to rush this through before the break so that people would not know what was in it. Obviously the representatives didn't know what was in it as they said their aides read it for them. Anytime someone tries to rush something through, you know there's has to be problems.

  123. Give up on the Bush crap - this is Sir Obama's health plan.

  124. Anonymous 3:31. I agree with you. However, most of this is not about the quality of health care, most people think it's very good. And that's not about to change. All the plans tackle the burden health care costs place on employers because corporate America owns most of Congress. But Ryans's "Patients Choice" in particular is actually built to relieve employers of this burden altogether, while the other plans demand some form of alternative based on competition. The health care industry is a monopoly.

    The biggest problem we have are with corrupt politicians. They are a majority on both sides of the aisle. Would corporations or unions and their paid lobbyists contribute money to political campaigns if they knew it bought them nothing?

  125. Wrong............there's me. I say no plan. Go to your doctor when you NEED TO, not when you WANT TO. Then pay him. Work it out with the doctor, not your Senator.

  126. Dear Anonymous 10:35, Please feel and show some compassion toward the poor. If the truth were told, very few people in this town possess the resources which would enable them to make the choices you recommend. Your advice is excellent for those who already have a stash of cash but it's nothing but cruelty to tell barefoot boys and girls to pull themselves up by their non-existent boot straps. Did it ever occur to you that someday you could wind up in their sad shoeless condition? Although you've worked hard for your wealth, forces beyond your control could take it away. For your own sake along with the well-being of others, please accept the need for a social safety net and the taxes to fund it. Many thanks and sincere best wishes.

  127. Dear Anonymous 10:35, Please feel and show some compassion toward the poor. If the truth were told, very few people in this town possess the resources which would enable them to make the choices you recommend. Your advice is excellent for those who already have a stash of cash but it's nothing but cruelty to tell barefoot boys and girls to pull themselves up by their non-existent boot straps. Did it ever occur to you that someday you could wind up in their sad shoeless condition? Although you've worked hard for your wealth, forces beyond your control could take it away. For your own sake along with the well-being of others, please accept the need for a social safety net and the taxes to fund it. Many thanks and sincere best wishes.

  128. American society requires too much effort from people who've been ground down into the muck for the fun and profit of our corporate class. Our brand of liberty is merely the freedom of the poor to flail and fail while the rich enjoy the license to exploit everyone in their path. My sad sixty-four years in this sorry country have taught me that the only freedom worth having is liberation from poverty. To me the economic system people enjoy in Denmark, France and other progressive nations trumps anything we have in this grim land which functions as a plutocrat's playpen and a pauper's penitentiary.

  129. You seem to be forgetting about the parents of these "shoeless kids". These "parents" choose lifestyles that impact their offspring, when the government starts messing with the family unit, parenting, and give-aways, these parents succumb to the "gimme ideology". So don't try to put the "guilt thing" on hard working folks.

  130. Go give them shoes......and keep it to yourself. Don't tell me about it.

  131. 3:55 - you sound like a nice person so I'll try and take it easy on you. What are these people doing to improve their situation, are they going to school, are they learning a trade are they reading books - people need to realize their are resources out there for them to do any of these things. The problem being - many of them are too lazy or unmotivated to do so. They wait for entitlements - much easier.

  132. You're right......this is a country for fighters, the people willing to work hard to climb that ladder, and then to fight with all they've got to keep it.

  133. 4:08 - please leave. We don't the likes of you!

  134. No, I'd never put a "guilt thing" on hard working people. I want a comprehensive social safety net that would help them too. If our government stopped meddling in the affairs of foreign lands, we'd have the funds to lift all our citizens out of poverty. It's time for America to keep its international intervention to an absolute minimum and start assisting its own people for a change.

  135. Maybe we should ask those like Oprah to spend their money in the U.S. instead of Africa or some other remote area.

  136. Pete - too embarrased to respond to 11:52 AM?

  137. Radiobots

    Name 5 reasons not to support this plan.

  138. 4:53 - I don't need 5 reasons - I'll give you 1.

    There is nothing wrong with the current system - works for me!

  139. Anon 4:37. Embarrassed? Hardly.

    News of health care protests at Congressmen's town hall meetings is all over the mainstream media today.

    Just go to and plug in the word "protest."

  140. The gentleman who said that America is a land of fighters is all-too-correct. Because we encourage hypercompetitiveness and ruthless greed, our socio-economic system is the disgrace of the post-industrial civilized world. Every other developed country manages to rein in its private sector privateers and pecuniary pirates. It's time we taxed the oligarchy down to size, put the Horatio Alger stories in the fiction section and built a decent society for ordinary citizens.

  141. The reason so many of us Americans fall for the privileged predators' entrepreneurial spiel is the sad fact that we've been brainwashed into believing that we could get rich someday. Naturally, when we're gullible enough to swallow such swill, we'll defend the rights of the rich to oppress us because we don't want anybody telling us what to do with our loot when we get it. We've been conned into backing billionaires because we want their club to accept us once we've stolen our mega-stash. How I wish that we'd wake up and see that the American dream is nothing but a cross between a mirage and a nightmare.

  142. Anybody that follows Beck is akin to being a follower of the devil incarnate.

    "The site, for "Kenosha/Racine Constitutional Patriots," says it grew out of principles introduced by TV and radio host Glenn Beck; it is also the Southeast Wisconsin Glenn Beck Meetup Group. Beck is the broadcaster who recently accused President Obama of being "a racist."

  143. Anon 4:53

    It is not going to work for you much longer. The health care system is going broke. Reform is needed now!

  144. Glenn Beck is a genius, he gets rich spewing BS to people who are guilable enough to believe him and the sad part is they then try to repeat it in blogs such as this without a clue of what they are talking about.

  145. Democratic capitalism has made the United States the envy of the world.

    At its best, it’s raised millions out of poverty, whether they were entrepreneurs or workers. At its worst, however, it can be pretty rough – perhaps even cruel – to the unlucky.

    FDR recognized this when he set out to save our capitalistic system in the 1930s, by ensuring at least a modicum of fairness for those who were down on their luck. He also instituted government programs, such as Social Security, that built at least a baseline of security for everyone, regardless of the vicissitudes of life.

    Otherwise, I suppose we would have lost our system and gone off the way of Russia or Germany in the 1930s.

    Instead, we preserved our democracy here and managed to save the rest of the world from despotism as well.

    There was a missing component in the plan, though, when it came to health care. For FDR, he just couldn’t pull it off. Nor could Harry Truman. Lyndon Johnson took a step in that direction with Medicare, and George W. Bush took it a step further just recently with Medicare Part D.

    Still, there are millions of people in this country without adequate health care, and many others just one layoff away from joining them.

    I shiver when some say, “Well, it’s just 10 percent of the people who don’t have it; I’ve got mine, so that’s just too bad for them.”

    Think back. Is that the kind of thinking we engaged in when Americans saved the world? Or does it more closely resemble the sentiments expressed by Martin Niemöller:

    "When Hitler attacked the Jews 
I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. 
And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, 
I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. 
And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, 
I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. 
Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- 
and there was nobody left to be concerned."

    Now, despite all our rhetoric in this debate, nothing’s really under attack here.

    Except maybe our compassion and good sense.

    What makes America great is that in addition to its rough-and-tumble economic system, it also has heart, or at least enlightened self-interest.

    In our noble experiment, the sky is indeed the limit, but there’s also a floor, and no American should be allowed to fall through its cracks.

  146. Anon 4:08 go get yourself a oneway first class ticket to France or Denmark I would be willing to pay for it to see that only nonsocialist remain in the USA!

  147. Many thanks for the kind offer. Unfortunately, smart nations like France and Denmark don't have our evil immigration policies which allow the rich to lure paupers here for exploitation as cheap scab labor. Precisely because they cherish their citizens, the Western European democracies don't hand out citizenship papers and benefits to aliens as if these goodies were penny candy. Still it was a kind thought and if I could obtain French or Danish citizenship, I'd leave this wicked land as soon as possible.

  148. Here's what puzzles me about my fellow Americans: their desire to slave away their grim existences for the richie-poo leeches. My Irish Dad taught me a little jingle about work. "Dead pan, give the man as little as you can, as little as you may. 'Cuz that's how he feels 'bout your pay,"

  149. Well, with yet another national study confirming that preventable medical error once again leads the list of the most common cause of accidental deaths in the nation, it may not be the best time to consider "tort reform," denying victims' families their day in court.

    It may, however, be an excellent time to adopt health-care reform proposals to track the most effective medical treatments.

    You know, rather than tolerating the ones that kill 100,000+ people a year (more than twice the number that die in auto accidents).

    Sounds like a pretty good reason to reform the health-care system right there.

  150. 10:03
    France is full of Illegals mostly African Muslims.

  151. When did the Union become the Health Care Police?
    Are they the only PAID supporters Barack Obama could come up with?
    Obama now has ""Want Ads"" for PAID supporters to show up at Town Hall Rallies. Pathetically Desperate.
    It is obvious that someone joined our Meet-up sight just to monitor our e-mails. Probably a coward named Anonymous. The SE WI Patriots Group has been open to all sides of the political spectrum never being bias to any party. Just bias to bad political policy.
    Hide behind the Animosity so you don't have to be accountable for your lies.

  152. Hunter

    Your group is as partisan as it gets. You object to all things Democrat. You're just a bunch of conservatives that are too embarrased to call yourselves Republicans.

    You're not fooling anyone.

  153. Pete - ole boy what you reported here was all hearsay - it's just to promote your liberal, socialistic agenda. I guys if the crooked union boss says something, it must be true - and I always believe Hff - NOT! And by the way, why did you drop the Raiders article - are you afraid people are going to realize the criminals are entertaining them on the weekends. Real freedom of the press here. Your site is a disgrace and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves!

  154. Dear Colt, You're right about the illegals in France. Still, their presence on French soil doesn't detract from the excellent care which the citizens receive from their government. I'd rather enjoy a pleasant reality free from economic worries than yearn in vain for the American dream.

  155. Because of rags-to-riches fairy fibs promoted by the rich to keep us scrambling for pennies, we American wage slaves are the most stupid toilers in the developed world. We're so dumb that we don't even know that we're workers and that richie-poo is our enemy. In this sick country, we dream about lucky breaks and wind up broke. No wonder the smart laborers in Western Europe laugh at us!

  156. 8:30 - The problem you have is as you said you are looking for "lucky breaks". Those that are successful have done something to get themselves there - they are not waiting for lucky breaks. They have gone to school, learned a trade, took chances and became successful. It's slobs like you that are waiting for the hand out -why not go out and do something for yourself and spend less time complaining against those that did do something.

  157. Still waiting for 5 reasons to oppose this bill. With all of the big talkers on here, you would think someone could actually articulate their position.

  158. I already gave you 1 and only one is needed. the current plan is working for most Americans.

  159. 8/11/2009 6:55 AM
    First of all it's not ""My Group"".
    Yes I belong to it and support it but there is no leader. There is no main organizer. We just go with what the majority feels needs to be done at that time. That way there is no head to cut off and kill it. To stop it you would have to take us all out at once. Never going to happen.
    Yes a proud Conservative. As much as you are a proud Marxist or whatever the hell you align your ideology with.
    I proclaim my loyalty only to God, Family, The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. The problem I see with liberals, socialists and marzists is they have no honor, no convictions. What exactly do you stand for?
    There is no middle. A person is either a radical or a hypocrite. The Lord said: ""to run hot or cold, if your lukewarm I will spit you from my mouth"".
    Maybe I'm a bit of a hypocrite in that the one social program I want to see saved that I have paid into since I was 16 is Social Security. It is 17 trillion in the whole, 3 times what health care costs but the promoters of a government take over of our health care system aren't crying for that to be reformed. I know I am and so is Congressman Paul Ryan.
    Before I would be for Socialized Medicine I want what I have paid for already to be guaranteed.
    Well this is all academic, if Bill 3200 which everyone from the far right to what Obama's own economic advisors are telling him will cause the inflation rate to go through the ceiling. This will bring on the worst depression since 1929. We will be defending our food with our guns.

  160. 1. Discard the elderly and the
    unborn: Mandates counseling of elderly on
    "end of life" options, code words for "go to
    hospice, no care for you." (p. 425 5-next p.)
    Specifies what life sustaining care the elderly
    will receive (p. 427 Lines 15-24), (p. 429 Lines
    10-25), (p. 430 Lines 11-15) US Taxpayers will
    be forced to fund abortions. (p. 770 Sec. 1714)

    2. Transfer medical decisions away
    from doctors and patients to
    faceless bureaucrats: A government
    committee will decide what treatment you
    get. (p. 30 Sec. 123) And a commissioner will
    enforce. (p. 42 Lines 6-11), (p. 438 Sec. 1236)
    3. Rations care and punishes
    readmissions to hospital: Annual
    limitations are established. (p. 29 Lines 4-16)
    Centrally planned healthcare capacity limits.
    (p. 238 Sec 1121) Physicians penalized for
    readmissions. (p. 298 Lines 9-11)
    4. Regulate and tax private
    insurance out of business:
    Government will set all prices and standards
    of private insurers AND skim a fee. The
    government will be the referee AND the other
    team competing with private sector. (p. 24
    Sec. 116), (p. 84 Sec.203), (p. 829 Sec. 4375)
    5. Allow the government to tell you
    if and when to have children: Plan
    sends counselor to your home to micromanage
    procreation and rearing of children. (p. 768
    Sec 1713)
    I have more if you would like.

  161. 8/10/2009 1:03 PM
    I don't know where your getting these so called threats from but be careful. Slander is definitely a sue-able offence. Its unfortunate that you come on here long winded making allegations you can not support with evidence and do it anonymously. My goodness your so brave. As far as it goes ""open debate"" should be between identifiable people, not between BOTS. This is the last time I respond to ""Anonymous"". If you have something to say,that is credible use your real name. Otherwise your opinion is really worthless, isn't it?

  162. HunterJohn - I agree 100% with your 9:16 post, but I don't get your next post - real name and not anon? Will I find Hunter John in the phone book? So tell me what is the difference between HunterJohn and Anon?

  163. Anon 8:12 The Raiders article was not removed at all, just moved to our Sports section.

    As for the rest of your question, just tune to CNN...

  164. 8/10/2009 1:01 PM
    This person is the coward who joined our group only to monitor our e-mails. The picnic was open to everyone. I personally and deliberately invited over 20 people who I knew were Democrats. Not one of them showed up.
    8/09/2009 8:18 AM
    We piggy backed on the content of the Bill 3200. I have read it, have you?
    8/09/2009 8:22 AM
    The Democrat Party started the KKK in 1865. Read The Ku Klux Klan was the Terrorist Arm of the Democrat Party By Frances Rice.
    If you would like more info on this here for starters:

    Be careful what you pray for, you might just get it.

  165. Anon 8:10, that is a totally stupid statement. Whether a working citizen "opts in" or not, his/her wages are still being taxed to support the program. We get screwed either way: get taxed and not belong or get taxed plus pay a permium to belong.

  166. Sorry, that was for Anon 2:20.

  167. HunterJohn - answer Anon 9:46 question.

  168. Anon 2:52, you better get your facts straight. As reported in the JT, the U.S. Government owns 5% of GM, the Canadian government owns 5%, Fiat owns 35% and the auto worker's union owns 55%. Fiat does not own any part of Chrysler. In fact, Chrysler is the company taking bail out money to keep our people working and then moving the plants to Mexico! And Obama is letting them!!!!!

  169. 9:46 If you click on my nickname My profile and real name appears.

  170. Anon 3:55, I have been there. I have had the rug pulled out from under me and been put on the street, pennyless. When I went for help I was told that if I was a black, a Hispanic or a woman I could get food stamps and financial relief. But because I was a white, able bodied male that I could get nothing. So, I pulled myself up by my "non-existant bootstraps" and started climbing the ladder of success once again. I didn't even have a H.S. diploma at the time. I eventually put my life back together and through hard work and determination managed to get a GED and college education, with absolutely NO help from the government or any of the bleeding heart "help the minorities" organizations. There is no reason the able bodied poor can't do the same thing. The fact is, they just won't as long as there are fools like you willing to hand them a check every month on a silver platter for doing nothing to better themselves.

  171. Anon 10:45 - well said and well done. Finally someone has gotten it straight. Everyone in our society has an opportunity to make whatever they want of themselves if they just take the time, effort and sacrifice to do so.!

  172. Get out your bulls--t meters, ladies and gentlemen. Do you really think there's a government plot to kill off old people?

  173. Hunter John, Raydene Edenhofer, Wayne Clingman aka Colt don't even realize how they're being used by insurance companies, big pharma and their wealthy CEO's who want to maintain the status quo. They are the ones who have funneled millions into these astro-turf groups like Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works.

    They have been manipulated into believing that there would be death panels, government sponsored abortions and government controlled family planning AND Americans of every belief would actually support it!

    It's amazing that they really believe Democrats would conspire to create such a thing. But they can't believe huge corporations might be willing to stretch the truth and spend millions a day to keep the gravy train rolling.

    These corporations have played on their weaknesses, racism and sense disenfranchisement to further their goals. These people don't even bother to do real research or look into whose sending them these lies. Glenn Beck is a wealthy man who wants to stay on TV and Rupert Murdoch is a very wealthy man with friends who are kings of industry whose profits are endangered.

    Wake up!

  174. Dear Anonymous 8:47, Believe it or not, I worked hard, earned the degrees the richie-poo oppressors recommended, jumped through their filthy hoops and got zippo. Telling poor people to drudge away at chimp chores for chump change won't solve their problems. Emersonian self-reliance is a scam used to keep us down and out for the privileged class' sick fun and profit. Why are you so opposed to helping the less-fortunate members of our community? Are you afraid that taxes to fund programs for ordinary folks will delay your triumphal trip to the winner's circle? Please remember that people are at the mercy of forces they cannot control. Hard times and bad luck could hurl you into the poverty pit with the victims you so smugly scorn. (If I weren't a Christian, I'd be praying that you'd lose everything and learn some empathy the rough. tough way. Smarmy defenders of economic injustice deserve such lessons.How I'd love to see the government seize the Waxtrash stash and put the John-Swines to work maintaining public lavatories!)

  175. 12:19 - you said "Believe it or not, I worked hard, earned the degrees the richie-poo oppressors recommended, jumped through their filthy hoops and got zippo." That does not suprise me because if you went though life with that attitude and spoke the way you write - you should get zippo. Most unfortunate people are in their situation due to their own doing or maybe I should say their not doing. And that goes for you as well.

  176. Hunter and his Glennbots do not have the capacity to think for themselves. They merely repeat what they were told to say. The arguments that they have against the bill are so proposterous that I have to question their IQ level. They didn't even think for 1 second to question what their master told them. Hook, line and sinker. This country is in trouble.

    Hunter's #1 "Discard the elderly and the
    unborn: Mandates counseling of elderly on
    "end of life" options, code words for "go to
    hospice, no care for you."

    Debunked: Provides an option for people to create a will, see the options and decide for themselves. The government isn't going to kill grandma.

    Hunter's #2 "Transfer medical decisions away
    from doctors and patients to
    faceless bureaucrats: A government
    committee will decide what treatment you
    get. (p. 30 Sec. 123) And a commissioner will
    enforce. (p. 42 Lines 6-11), (p. 438 Sec. 1236)"

    Debunked Courtesy of pleasecutthecrap "The section on Page 30 establishes an advisory committee, and yes; they will decide which treatments and benefits you get. I'm unsure as to why this is a bad thing. I don't want my health insurance premiums going to Britney's boob job, even if I have private insurance. Which reminds me; does this bozo actually think private insurance companies don't have a list of acceptable treatments and benefits?

    There is one difference here, though. The committee's recommendations will be published and the public will have access to them. Which means they will be able to offer input to the process.

    Oh, and there is nothing here about "no appeals process." The Committee will simply recommend processes for implementation. Not only that, but varying appeals processes are laid out in detail throughout the bill.

  177. Hunter's #3 "Rations care and punishes readmissions to hospital: Annual limitations are established."

    Debunked courtesy of The section actually starts on page 26, and it's entitled:


    There is absolutely NO section in there, from page 26 through page 30, that indicates rationing of any kind. Looking at Page 29 specifically, it contains a section called "Annual Limitation." A-HA! See? It's a LIMITATION! That's the same as rationing, right? Didn't they admit rationing?

    Well, no. Because the limit is on the amount that people will have to pay out in cost-sharing, should the agency implementing the bill decide to use a version of cost-sharing. The limit is on how much a patient will have to pay, not a limit on the health care the patient receives.Watch how many times these tools bring up the "rationing" canard. It's almost as often as they mention ACORN. (I kid you not. Just wait.)

  178. Hunter's #4 "Regulate and tax private insurance out of business:
    Government will set all prices and standards of private insurers AND skim a fee. The government will be the referee AND the other team competing with private sector."

    Debunked courtesy of Again, this is a lie. There are requirements for those choosing to participating in the Health Exchange, but there is absolutely no mandate to join. And if there is going to be competition, it should be on a level playing field, which is what the Exchange creates. It creates an easy-to-read set of options, which insurance companies are free to enhance, and all companies who participate are instructed to offer several levels of plans. If you really think about it rationally, and not the right wing way, the Exchange actually enhances the private insurance companies' chances of survival. But these idiots want to kill it. If there's a public option available at a competitive price per month, insurance companies can offer two other tiers of service, with whatever enhancements they want to include, for a higher price. So, rather than offering "total government control," it actually allows insurance companies an opportunity to offer several tiers of "enhanced" service, to enhance their profitability.

    Hunter's #5 Allow the government to tell you if and when to have children: Plan sends counselor to your home to micromanage procreation and rearing of children. (p. 768 Sec 1713)

    Debunked courtesy of : Government-determined? Check out the title:


    Has the word "optional" taken on a new meaning in recent years? Is it now a synonym for mandatory?

    The one about abortion is absolutely fascinating. I challenge anyone who has ever gotten through elementary school reading to read "compulsory abortions" into the following section, which is the one they're quoting. (Okay, to be fair, they're urging you to only read the three lines that I will put in bold type for you):

    ‘‘(aa) The term ‘nurse home visitation services’ means home visits by trained nurses to families with a first-time pregnant woman, or a child (under 2 years of age), who is eligible for medical assistance under this title, but only, to the extent determined by the Secretary based upon evidence, that such services are effective in one or more of the following:

    ‘‘(1) Improving maternal or child health and pregnancy outcomes or increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.

    ‘‘(2) Reducing the incidence of child abuse, neglect, and injury, improving family stability (including reduction in the incidence of intimate partner violence), or reducing maternal and child involvement in the criminal justice system.

    ‘‘(3) Increasing economic self-sufficiency, employment advancement, school-readiness, and educational achievement, or reducing dependence on public assistance.’’

    So, (1) is about the POSSIBILITY (note the word "optional" above) that the public insurance plan might cover (not make mandatory, but COVER) the use of home visits by trained nurses in BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND TO improve the health of the child and mother, to make sure the pregnancy goes well, and seem to encourage poor women to wait a little while between pregnancies. It's actually against the law for the government to use tax money to pay for abortions and, as these fine lawyers point out later on, all fees in this plan are to be treated as taxes. In order for them to cover abortions, they would have to repeal laws that have been on the books for more than 30 years. In other words, the whole abortion thing is -- you guessed it -- a lie.

    As for the last one, all I can say is, either these lawyers have a serious reading deficiency, or they're lying about what the bill says. They refer to section (3) above. What Section (3) actually says is that the Committee will consider the POSSIBILITY of COVERING "nurse home visitation services" BECAUSE such visits increase economic self-sufficiency, etc.

  179. HunterJohn got PWNED


    Your only reference is a Pro-Democratic, Anti-Republican page that is designed to call anything said in opposition to the Democratic Party a lie.
    My Lord your an Idiot.

  181. OK,
    I'm done. You guys have got me so intimidated that I may have to seek therapy. My lawyer says you can be held liable. I am a victim of circumstance. wooo woo wo

  182. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  183. And what part of it was false Hunter?

    Go ahead and debunk it. I dare you. Be a man and stand behind your ideas - that is if you have any of your own.

    What a downer hey? To find out the government isn't trying to take over every aspect of your life. Who will you blame next?

    You've got nothing.

  184. Thanks, Anon. Looks as if the truth's finally getting its boots on.

  185. If Americans for Prosperity can so easily be belittled by your rhetoric by saying they produce AstroTurf, than can we say that A.C.O.R.N. and the SEU are afroturf?

  186. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  187. Patriot?
    Are you getting paid and by who to be here all day?

  188. 8/11/2009 2:12 PM
    I will no longer debate with ""Anonymous"".
    In the future we will have to meet face to face.

  189. Spector got trashed today, let's keep it going. This thing needs to DIE!

  190. Dear Anonymous 8/10/1:16 PM, It's too bad that all you can do is blame society's walking wounded for their plight. In this crappy system, anyone who isn't either part of the oligarchy or one of its pampered Ivy League lackeys is one paycheck away from total destruction. We inflict nothing but stress and distress on common humanity. Still, "The Man With the Hoe" will rise and smash the elitist lucre leeches. Sooner than you and your unkind kind care to think, the worker will settle accounts with his oppressors. Pray that he merely taxes them down to their proper dimensions or staves in the hulls of the ostentatious vessels which clog our harbor. As a historian, I can tell you that we are on the verge of the first genuine American revolution, the upheaval which will free us from the rigid class system and the capitalism which the Brits brought to our sorry shores.(In case you're interested, 1776 was an evil joke as far as ordinary folks were concerned. All it did was let the rich and their pals dodge their taxes and weasel out of debts they owed to several firms in London. For this foul farce, "the embattled farmers" suffered and died.)

  191. 3:49 - let the rich get richer. And I suggest shorten up your posts - that ramble on for no reason.

  192. Spector didn't get trashed...he got yelled at. This proves the people against reform have nothing meaningful to say. They are just repeating what they were told to think, and boy was it easy....far easier than actually trying to understand the issues and proposals.

  193. Unless you're rich, America is worse than worthless--it's just a palace for plutocrats who grin while they grind us into the mire. The time has come for richie-poo to meet the one thing that can crush him: post-industrial super-strength people's government. I work for the day when we will have laws empowering our government to seize entire industries--never mind "family companies"--with the stroke of an official's pen. How the wicked Waxies will howl after Messy-John-It's-A-Sin vanishes into the public treasury!

  194. 3:58 - never going to happen - and do you have to spew on every article? At least it was a little shortr - let the rich get richer.

  195. Hmmm..."Let the rich get richer..." That way, the people's government will acquire more loot in exchange for less labor when it finally trounces the treasure tyrants.

  196. That's right. The capitalistic concentration of wealth in fewer hands will aid us in locating and confiscating the loot on judgment day. When the elitists least expect it, the common man's government will make its move.

  197. "The time has come for richie-poo to meet the one thing that can crush him: post-industrial super-strength people's government. I work for the day when we will have laws empowering our government to seize entire industries ... with the stroke of an official's pen."

    There you have it! Anon 3:58 just admitted to being a NAtionalsoZIalist - a Nazi. And those that are supporting this Obamacare plan are flat out lieing to you folks. I've read it and everything Hunter is saying is absolutely true. The bill is on-line several places. All you have to do to see that these NAtionalsoZIalists are lieing is to go read it for yourself.

  198. Was struck tonight by the segment on NBC News about the Remote Area Medical program setting up in Los Angeles, where thousands showed up, even sleeping out all night, for a chance to see a doctor.

    Apparently the program started to send visiting volunteer doctors to poor countries overseas, but the need became so great in the United States, they're now pitching camp in major U.S. cities for a week at a time.

    The patients aren't Medicaid recipients - they get coverage already - but just working folks with no health insurance, or those who've lost their jobs and their coverage.

    Some of the people shown hadn't been able to afford to see a doctor in five years; one guy was ready to pull out his own tooth with a pair of pliers.

    They expect to see 8,000-10,000 patients this week alone.

    Seems like a lot of folks are going without heath care because of the insurance mess in this country, and it needs to get straightened out.

    I'm embarrassed, as an American, that volunteer doctors who normally do charity work overseas have to come back home to do it here instead.

    It does not speak well for America if we let this persist.

  199. That is too funny 4:14 - no one responds to your post and you have to respond to it a couple more times. Do you really like talking to yourself? Love the Rich!

  200. No, I am not and never have been a Nazi. What I am is a victim of our corrupt socio-economic system. Long ago, my Irish Dad, who was the product of a grim background, taught me that individual effort was useless. Nevertheless, he encouraged me to bond with others in my sad situation and use legal, non-violent methods to destroy capitalism. What one weak old woman cannot do, millions of progressive people shall accomplish.